Shaida Mohammad Abdali, Ambassador of Afghanistan to India |

Generally, diplomats complain about India and its various walks of life. But Shaida Mohammad Abdali, Ambassador of Afghanistan to India, thinks his three years in the country have been the most impressive and have gone by like months. In a freewheeling interaction with The Dollar Business, Abdali spoke about post-Taliban Afghanistan, India’s role in its reconstruction, trade ties, and of course Pakistan

Interview by Vanita Peter D’souza | June 2015 Issue | The Dollar Business

TDB: Give us a real sense of the post-Taliban Afghan economy. How far have things improved?

Shaida Mohammad Abdali (SMA): The situation in Afghanistan has improved in all walks of life and, today, we are focusing more on economic development. I’ll tell you my personal story about what Afghanistan was and what it looks like today. When we arrived in Kabul in late 2001, Taliban had still not fallen. I remember the situation in Kabul was very miserable. People used to be completely hopeless, in terms of the life they were living. Around late 2001 and early 2002, when I would personally walk into Kabul’s streets, I would get surrounded by beggars. In fact, at times, I wouldn’t go out because I used to get very affected by looking at the condition of the people who surrounded me.

Today, the situation is unbelievably different from those Taliban years. Today, despite security challenges, the economic life of the people has improved a lot. But yes, we could do better. I would never be satisfied with what we have. But I’m very satisfied with Afghanistan’s long journey from the Taliban years to today.

TDB: Has the Afghan central government managed to consolidate all parts of the economy under its ambit or is the parallel economy still very large?

SMA: When we came to Kabul in late 2001, Afghanistan barely had anything in its national account. We, probably, had less than $200 million. Today, it’s swelled to more than $5 billion. Barely any revenue was getting generated for the national economy during those years. So, $5 billion national revenue signifies that revenue collection, today, is good. We have made a lot of progress in various sectors. Revenue is being collected nationally. But of course, any conflict-affected country will take time. We need time to ensure we make progress in every direction. The financial system in Afghanistan is doing very well, but certainly, we expect further improvement.

 

TDB: India and Afghanistan have almost always had cordial relations. Given this, how satisfied is it with India’s assistance in its reconstruction?

SMA: India has stood by the people of Afghanistan at all times and under all circumstances, whether good or bad. Hence, when it comes to reconstruction activities in Afghanistan, Indo-Afghan relationship is very unique. For the last few years, India has been at the forefront of our reconstruction. It has invested about $2 billion in Afghanistan. It is one of the largest contributors to Afghanistan’s reconstruction. It is also the fifth largest donor to Afghanistan. The people of Afghanistan are extremely grateful to India for this. Indo-Afghan relationship should strengthen further, not just at a bilateral level, but also at the multilateral level.

TDB: Reports claim that Afghanistan is sitting on mineral deposits worth trillions of dollars. There also seems to be a race between Indian and Chinese companies to develop these mines. Will this fight be won by economics or geo-politics?

SMA: We will not call it a fight. We will call it competition, a constructive competition between two constructive partnerships. No one will win this, if it’s about fighting. If the competition is in an unconstructive manner, someone will stumble one day.

The trillions of dollars of mineral resources in Afghanistan are a fact and we expect India and the rest of the region to become our partners in extracting these resources and then sharing the wealth amongst ourselves. So, we welcome all countries in the region, be it India, China, or others, for this collective prosperity. Indo-China economic relationships are also growing and we would like to see this relationship working towards Afghanistan’s growth.

 

TDB: India-Afghanistan bilateral trade is not worth even $1 billion. What do you think are the real roadblocks and the real potential of it?

SMA: This is a very unpleasant news. With the potential that we have, the possibility of this bilateral relationship is humongous. But we are not sitting ideal and will make it a reality. We have been working on upgrading this relationship. There are certainly some roadblocks, particularly regarding our interconnectivity. We are hopeful of sorting this out. Hopefully, Afghanistan and others, including Pakistan, will reach a common ground for our collective gain. This journey should benefit everyone.

Pakistan, Afghanistan and India need to be economically engaged with each other. Otherwise, none will be able to gain. The governments of Afghanistan, India and Pakistan are working together on certain alternative routes. Afghanistan has a quest for connectivity to India through Wagah, Punjab, and similar is the quest of Pakistan for Central Asia.

TDB: The India-Afghanistan road link has hit a speed breaker due to Pakistan’s non-cooperation. By when can we expect a resolution to this? Is Afghanistan actually going to walk the talk and stop Pakistan’s access to Central Asia if it doesn’t cooperate?

SMA: We don’t want to reach a point, where we end up confronting one another on such matters. We advise and urge everyone to put aside all other matters, when it comes to economic cooperation.

We don’t deny the fact that there are many things that stop our countries from sharing the same platform. But that is no reason to create obstacles on what we think will bring nothing but prosperity for everyone. So, we hope the three of us could together work out Afghanistan’s access to India and Pakistan’s access to Central Asia.

 

TDB: Food security is a major concern in Afghanistan and the country is a big importer of wheat, while India is a big exporter of the cereal. Why hasn’t this led to more trade between the two nations?

SMA: We are certainly in need of food items. But as I said earlier, we are creating an environment to facilitate trade through open borders. The Wagah border is currently an issue and we are looking for a permanent solution to it. This connectivity will solve many problems.

Currently, Afghanistan is highly dependent on imports. But we are, actually, trying to make Afghanistan an exporting nation that produces and exports! Unfortunately, the region has not fully realised that Afghanistan is a gift, in terms of the prosperity that will reach everyone, if its location is utilised properly. We connect the entire region. It should be used as a road. Politically speaking as well, Afghanistan should become the centre of cooperation in the region, instead of being the centre of concentration.

TDB: Other than dry fruits and spices, what other Afghan products do you think Indians can take a liking to?

SMA: For the last two years, I have been going around and visiting various Indian states and as I have said, business with Afghanistan means business not just with it, but with the entire region. Once you enter the Afghan market, you have the option to do business with any country bordering us.

Traditionally, Afghanistan is known for fruits that have always been coming to India, but their volume should rise much higher than what they are today. Afghanistan has gas, minerals, rare earth materials and precious stones, which are so much in demand in today’s world. There are many other items that Afghanistan can provide to India and also revive the traditional trade, wherein various Afghan entrepreneurs used to bring both fresh and dry fruits, and various other organic foods, to India.

In the last three years, I have concentrated a lot on economic diplomacy with India. I believe a good economy can drive a country to a better future. It’s economic prosperity that drives governments because that is what people want and we are, ultimately, democratic nations. Therefore, we should work on getting people to work together at the grass root level.

TDB: How do you plan to get people working at the grass root level?

SMA: In the last few years, I have done whatever I could. Like I said earlier, I have been visiting Indian states. I have covered half of India until now and will continue to visit other states to create business ties between the two countries, such as building sister city relationships that I have been proposing. Although nothing has been announced yet, principally things have been agreed upon and official sanctions are awaited. These are called sister cities because of certain similarities they share, like how Delhi has a strong history just like Kabul. This initiative is there because of the need to get people together.

As I said earlier, we should work at the people-to-people level, especially with a country like Afghanistan. Governments come and go, but we should strengthen the roots of our relationship and that is there in people-to-people relationships.

TDB: How big is Afghanistan being landlocked an impediment to its trade ambitions?

SMA: Landlocked does not mean Afghanistan is deprived of economic significance. In fact, Afghanistan is a landlocked bridge for the entire region and has its own significance. It’s a land bridge. You can’t always depend on oceanic bridges. We hope Afghanistan’s location helps connect South Asia with Central Asia, which was historically the case.

The one thing that is not much discussed in South Asia is that Afghanistan’s presence or membership in SAARC has not been utilised much. Afghanistan is not only a South Asian, but also a Central Asian country. So, it has many plus points for both SAARC and Central Asia. Both need Afghanistan.

For example, India’s policy to look east and connect with Central Asia cannot be materialised without Afghanistan.

TDB: Can Indian ports ever expect business from Afghanistan, given its dependence on Pakistani and Iranian ports?

SMA: We should not be concentrating on things that will create divisions. We should be working on projects that would be win-win for all of us. Afghanistan’s connectivity to India via Pakistan has always been very cost effective. At the same time, there are various alternative routes, which might take time, but would connect businesses permanently.

Afghanistan’s location requires a number of routes to connect its economy with the rest of the world. It needs to find multiple routes and partners for economic development of the country. We are increasing parties in Afghan-Pakistan Trade and Transit Agreement (APTTA), which will include India soon. At the same time, we are also working on some alternative routes, which would diversify our economic routes.

TDB: Afghanistan continues to have a mystical image. Is it safe for the average Indian to visit your country? Are you doing anything to attract more Indian tourists to Afghanistan?

SMA: Our people-to-people relationship is extremely pleasant. Indians, in Afghanistan, are very well taken care of, because of millennium old relationships that we have. However, tourists should always know where they are going and the kind of people they are interacting with, because we are not living in a very secure world. If, god forbid, someone harms an Indian, I’m sure it won’t be a representation of the kind of relationship we have with India. Earlier, other nationals would disguise themselves as Indians in Afghanistan so that people treat them warmly!

TDB: Bollywood movies have always had a large audience in Afghanistan. Would you consider Bollywood to be India’s top export to your country?

SMA: Absolutely! Our industry has always tied up with Indian cinema. The visible examples of this are the Khans of Bollywood. Indian cinema is very popular in Afghanistan. I have had a great time meeting a number of Indian actors, including Amitabh Bachchan, in the last few years. I had visited him at his residence to discuss how we should revive the strong cinema-to-cinema relationship between the two countries. He is not just a champion here in India, but also in Afghanistan, because of his movie Khuda Gawah.